tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post6887778838242185195..comments2023-07-30T04:56:42.407-07:00Comments on The Seal Press Women's Interest Blog: A Public ApologySeal Presshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12626606901384339068noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-33840548584784853432008-05-18T02:40:00.000-07:002008-05-18T02:40:00.000-07:00Deniz,I don't have all the answers. Frankly, I don...Deniz,<BR/><BR/>I don't have all the answers. Frankly, I don't have any answers. I only have my experiences to draw from, my observations, and conversations with people I know from my old neighborhood. <BR/><BR/>I can't say one way or the other why people of any race do or don't do something. That's the million dollar question and it applies to more than just a discussion about social mobility and how that affects whites vs. POC. <BR/><BR/>Why do women stay in abusive relationships? Why do they defend their abusive spouses? All of it is complicated and I don't think there is only one answer for any of it.<BR/><BR/>However, I do believe inertia is a big part of it--the predisposition for people (all people) to do nothing to be proactive and make an effort to change a situation they don't like. <BR/><BR/>It would've been much easier for me to stay where I was. It was a known quantity. That was my neighborhood. I could handle it. I'd been handling it for years. If it were just me, I would probably still be there. I chose to leave because I didn't want my son growing up in that environment. I was a single mom and my son was seven when I took us out.<BR/><BR/>If I had followed the "pattern" of the "privileged" whites around me, I'd still be there, on welfare, living in a trailer, with several kids from different dads (like many of my old friends), and I wouldn't be having this conversation right now because I wouldn't be able to afford a computer. <BR/><BR/>As for the discussion about social mobility between blacks and whites, there is no point in having the discussion if the white sampling you and others choose to compare doesn't include poor whites like the Appalachians. It's a null hypothesis. Statistics are easily manipulated by the use of selective sampling. With the parameters you've proposed, it's not even a cogent argument.<BR/><BR/>And that's why I'm cranky about getting drawn into a discussion about it again.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-60530833630569606172008-05-18T00:14:00.000-07:002008-05-18T00:14:00.000-07:00Annette,I am not black, it is not even about that....Annette,<BR/><BR/>I am not black, it is not even about that. Sorry about the "know my place" thing, it was not necessary. <BR/><BR/>Your point is, it is about choice, that all kinds of people have "inertia" and if they work hard, they'll get out of it.<BR/><BR/>This is what I disagree with. <BR/><BR/>I mentioned the fact that ON THE WHOLE, black people have a harder time transitioning from poor to middle class than white people, upon which you mentioned inertia.<BR/><BR/>Just please could you answer this simple question: Why do you think it is harder for black people in this country to become middle class than white people, starting from the same poor background?<BR/><BR/>Is it choice? Are black people on the whole more prone to inertia?<BR/><BR/>I wasn't talking about all social immobility. I was talking about the difference between the races, why do you think there is this difference? Why are poor white people more likely to make it to middle class?Deniz Kuralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01645386276306151972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-42625614957852498562008-05-17T10:48:00.000-07:002008-05-17T10:48:00.000-07:00Deniz,Inertia crosses every color line. I have whi...Deniz,<BR/><BR/>Inertia crosses every color line. I have white friends (as well as African American and Hispanic) who never got out of that hell hole. Why? Because they didn't even try. I can't answer why that is. The ones I did ask at my 20-year h.s. reunion said they didn't think they could. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think you can or you think you can't--you're right either way.<BR/><BR/>I get so sick of hearing that it's all about race. That was the first thing you jumped on about my statement--that I was "implying black people are lazy." I never said anything about POC; my statement was about social immobility. I hardly think the dirt poor Appalachian Americans would agree that their skin color makes them privileged in any way. http://tinyurl.com/r83hk<BR/><BR/>According to you, because they are white, they have all the privilege in the world. So, why are they, in 2008, in the U.S., still living without electricity and plumbing?<BR/><BR/>Answer: inertia.<BR/><BR/>I just wish POC would stop making it about race. Because it's not. It's about making choices.<BR/><BR/>I'll be the first one to say I think everyone should strive to better themselves and live the life they really want--that's what I did. But I'll also be the first one to say--be the change you want to see. Don't sit around whining about how hard it is and how so many people have it easier--just do it. Run your own life race and stop comparing yourself to others. In the end, we all end up as worm food, and I'm sure we all taste the same to the worms.<BR/><BR/>Ok, I do apologize for the mouth comment. You have as much right to express your opinion as I do, as everyone does. That wasn't my point. I was just pissed because I felt like I was being drawn back into that same old argument. And frankly, I'm beyond tired of it. That's why I said to go stir the pot somewhere else. But again, you also made that comment all about race by adding that ridiculous "know my place" statement. I'm not the one who is racist. You are.<BR/><BR/>Another example of you twisting everything to suit your race agenda: I didn't say I was more (or less) deserving than the POC who received the financial aid for college. Your point in the previous post was that I got an education because of white privilege. My point was that if I were so privileged by being white, then why wasn't my college tuition handed to me? Does that mean the POC who received the financial aid got an education strictly because of preferential treatment? Because that's what you are saying with your argument.<BR/><BR/>And for the record, "life" didn't lift me up. I lifted me up. Again, it's about choices. It starts from the minute you open your eyes in the morning and you choose whether to get out of bed or not. The ability to make choices in your life ends when you get put into the ground.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-84634465671799301572008-05-17T02:06:00.000-07:002008-05-17T02:06:00.000-07:00Annette, I just wanted to point out that "white pr...Annette, <BR/><BR/>I just wanted to point out that "white privelege" does not just mean that someone is priveleged from birth.<BR/><BR/>I am not "hiding behind" statistics. These are the facts of racism in this country.<BR/><BR/>Who am I to even judge you, from what you've written, you clearly worked really hard in life, and more than deserve success. <BR/><BR/>My only intention was to point out that, in this country, the whiter your skin, the easier a time you have making it from poor to middle class, to more, on average.<BR/><BR/>What are you implying by the inertia talk? Please explain? I said that the black poor face worse prospects in life than the white poor, and you said:<BR/><BR/>"Here it is: the indisposition to motion, exertion, or change. There's your reason for social immobility."<BR/><BR/>are you implying that black people are lazy, resistant to motion, or are "used to being poor" or something?<BR/><BR/>Please explain me how inertia explains the social immobility of blacks as opposed to whites.<BR/><BR/>"my mouth showed up", yes, should I just shut up and put up? know my place?<BR/><BR/>Also, could you please clarify your position on affirmative action? Do you think that you were more deserving than the black people who got the scholarships? What is the basis of this belief?Deniz Kuralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01645386276306151972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-13046802406024505812008-05-16T09:27:00.000-07:002008-05-16T09:27:00.000-07:00Deniz,Your comment falls into the "oh no you din't...Deniz,<BR/><BR/>Your comment falls into the "oh no you din't say that" category. Funny thing about that whole college scenario: I couldn't get any financial aid or grants or scholarships because apparently, I didn't have the right skin color. I had to do that little thing called WORK to get through college. Ever heard of it? <BR/><BR/>I worked 40 hours a week in a government job and went to school full time. And before you pop off about me being able to get a job because I am white--the majority of the people in my job description were African American women. You don't know WTF you are talking about, so step off. <BR/><BR/>This thread hadn't been commented in 10 days and then you and your mouth show up. Go stir the pot somewhere else.<BR/><BR/>And, btw, after you finish hiding behind statistics of social mobility, why don't you look up the definition of inertia. As a matter of fact, don't strain yourself. Here it is: the indisposition to motion, exertion, or change. There's your reason for social immobility.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-42204377566772622852008-05-16T02:05:00.000-07:002008-05-16T02:05:00.000-07:00Sorry for the double-commenting but just had to me...Sorry for the double-commenting but just had to mention this:<BR/><BR/>Annette, your life story fits very well within the patterns of white privilege. Despite coming from a pretty bad background you were able to get that education and pull yourself up... and i think you deserve credit for that, but, and this is the big BUT:<BR/><BR/>on the whole, white people are more able to do this (i.e. are more socially mobile) than black people in this country. Thus, if you are a white person from a bad background, you are much better able to make it in life than if you are a black person from a bad family.<BR/><BR/>Guess why.<BR/><BR/>Thus all the talk about white privilege. You probably owe your life to it, because if you were black life might not have been kind enough to lift you up. <BR/><BR/>Feel free to check the statistics on social mobility, and how it breaks down between races.Deniz Kuralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01645386276306151972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-26157274705140963062008-05-16T01:57:00.000-07:002008-05-16T01:57:00.000-07:00What do you mean 'sorry if offended'? WTF? Don't y...What do you mean 'sorry if offended'? WTF? Don't you find anything offensive in the illustrations? You still seem to not get it and the apology doesn't seem genuine to me.<BR/><BR/>Do you really need training to see why those photos are racist? Are you mentally challenged?Deniz Kuralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01645386276306151972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-82278289140941506432008-05-06T09:40:00.000-07:002008-05-06T09:40:00.000-07:00bah, I apologized to Sydette and to Adele offline....bah, I apologized to Sydette and to Adele offline. I don't think our blog was the appropriate place to have those conversations, particularly since the whole BA blowup was in the aftermath of WAM and involved women I'd met. I've already stated, extensively, my position on that whole blowup. We are not policing our space at all. It's open to commentary, and you are commenting, and I simply pushed back when I felt your comments went too far. The end. <BR/><BR/>---BrookeSeal Presshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12626606901384339068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-8142068329441896372008-05-05T20:21:00.000-07:002008-05-05T20:21:00.000-07:00I'm fascinated that they're calling on you to stop...I'm fascinated that they're calling on you to stop, but not posters like Annette. It's very telling.Karnythiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07573616415877490897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-76932655617069223752008-05-05T20:10:00.000-07:002008-05-05T20:10:00.000-07:00you live in america and are white. you are steepe...you live in america and are white. you are steeped in racist ideology, plain and simple. that's not contestable, no matter how you quail at it. <BR/><BR/>i'll back off when you publically apologise for your 'negative discourse' snark towards WOC on blackamazon's now-private blog. <BR/><BR/>funny how you police your own space so strictly, demanding respect and care and consideration you refused to give WOC in their own spaces...bahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02438213254794591872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-89189266335954724102008-05-05T10:47:00.000-07:002008-05-05T10:47:00.000-07:00bah, enough is enough. Time to back off. We are si...bah, enough is enough. Time to back off. We are sincere in the actions we've laid out. We are not racists. We have already initiated many conversations with women in our efforts to move forward with all that we've learned. <BR/><BR/>---BrookeSeal Presshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12626606901384339068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-37905889067747063682008-05-05T10:44:00.000-07:002008-05-05T10:44:00.000-07:00Race card = Playing the race card is an idiomatic ...Race card = Playing the race card is an idiomatic phrase referring to an allegation raised against a person who has brought the issue of race or racism into a debate, perhaps to obfuscate the matter. It is a metaphorical reference to card games in which a trump card may be used to gain an advantage. (uber convenient pre-written definition provided by Wikipedia, perfect for the copy/paste function)<BR/><BR/>My purpose for making that statement came as a direct result of the accusation that anyone supporting Krista and Brooke is "invested in racist ideology."<BR/><BR/>Um, no. How about completely fed up with that being used as an excuse whenever someone doesn't agree with you.<BR/><BR/>I still can't fathom HOW everything has gotten to this point. <BR/><BR/>Weeks ago, Brooke responded to BA's F*@# Seal Press comment. She made a comment about how SP wants more WOC to submit their work. And that turned into a massive game of Word Twister.<BR/><BR/>Then the next fight picked with SP is about the illustrations in the "It's a Jungle Out There" book. Newsflash, people. It IS a jungle out there. Stop trying to misappropriate Darwin's concept of survival of the fittest for your own racial soapbox rant. It's a ridiculous leap.<BR/><BR/>An image of a woman with King Kong is a reference to a white woman in peril by an African American? I saw the movie. It looked like a giant gorilla to me. I saw the movie Godzilla vs. Mothra too, and I'm pretty sure there won't be any ethnic groups stepping out to claim that it's about them. But who knows, maybe that's an ongoing fight on another blog somewhere.<BR/><BR/>If you want to read symbolism into the King Kong image, then use all of the symbols from 1933 when it was created: FDR and the New Deal, social rebellion during the Great Depression, and animal as a human-like symbol of man's base and carnal sexuality. Look it up.<BR/><BR/>So, by referencing a jungle and a gorilla, you and others are claiming that SP was motivated by racist intentions, or at the least, racial insensitivity? Gimme a break. You're using that twisted rationale as a way to further your own racist message.<BR/><BR/>If you want to take the feminist track with the illustrations: busty women with tiny waists who are objectified images drawn from a man's perspective. Okay, I'll give you that. BUT did you happen to notice that the images of the women in those pictures are FIGHTING, not just lying helpless awaiting rescue? Did you READ the book? A definite dichotomy between the text and the campy images. Although, I still think they are images of strong women--and hell, I wouldn't mind looking like those heroines while I'm fighting the injustices of suburbia. Like Underdog with tits. =)<BR/><BR/>I just think this whole thing is one giant unnecessary train wreck. I've posted so often because it's really hard to look away when you are trying to make sense of it all.<BR/><BR/>I still think the women of the world who are less fortunate than we American women are, are the ones who need our help. And I believe we can't help them until we can get past quibbling about who has more "privilege," and move on to what is most important. We are all WOMEN first, Americans second, and of various skin colors, religions, economic status third. And until we act like the first one is the most important, then we'll never get any positive feminist work done.<BR/><BR/>{{{SIGH}}} This in-fighting is so unproductive.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-2597496031839712252008-05-05T01:28:00.000-07:002008-05-05T01:28:00.000-07:00what 'race card' is being played, and what does it...what 'race card' is being played, and what does it look like?bahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02438213254794591872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-82308096821703401082008-05-05T00:34:00.000-07:002008-05-05T00:34:00.000-07:00Ok, originally, I wasn't going to go there--I usua...Ok, originally, I wasn't going to go there--I usually just gloss over my personal history, but after holding my tongue for as long as I could, I have to make a comment about this concept of "white privilege" that everyone keeps talking about.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry to blow this ridiculous fairytale, but I wasn't feeling too terribly privileged when I was living in a desert ghetto with that lovely ethery scent of meth cooking at night, the drive by shootings, a home invasion murder next door and one in the house across the street, police pursuits ending in the alley of my apartment complex, fist fighting in parking lots, and the two times I was on the wrong end of a gun--once was an attempted kidnapping by a gang member; the other was a man who already had two dead bodies in his car (saw those) and brain matter on his shirt (missed that, but I heard about it at the murder trial). And there were plenty of times I was on the right end of a gun and it kept me from being victimized (once was a 6'5" rapist on parole from Folsom prison).<BR/><BR/>So, yeah, I get it, life is hard. Been there. Done that. Couldn't afford the commemorative t-shirt.<BR/><BR/>But guess what, by 30, I got an education, got out, and got over it. So, let me get this straight, just having white skin supposedly makes me "privileged?"<BR/><BR/>Pullleeease.<BR/><BR/>Life is what you make of it. It's based on your choices and has nothing to do with privilege.<BR/><BR/>A heart-felt suggestion for the pseudo-intellectual whiners who couldn't find a ghetto with a GPS strapped to their asses: Get a life.<BR/><BR/>Krista, Brooke, I get it. You have to do what you think is right for your business. I truly wish you the very best with it.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.<BR/><BR/>Bah, put your race card in your pocket. That game is played out.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-11566416648824185162008-05-04T23:15:00.000-07:002008-05-04T23:15:00.000-07:00you're committing the conflation you accuse profbw...you're committing the conflation you accuse profbw of, incidentally. it doesn't offer any hope that WOC can really view seal press in its current incarnation as an ally or potential partner-press. you are racist, you further racist ways of thinking and processing, and just because some support you in that doesn't mean you're getting 'piled on' by 'evil WOC'. it means they are as invested in the racist ideology as you are and see no reason to move beyond it (and take offence on your behalf at the notion that one should attempt to, instead choosing to dismiss any attempts to critique your amazingly problematic and unproductive behaviors.) <BR/><BR/>that you even rank those unconscionable statements as 'support' tells the truth of where your intentions really lie.bahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02438213254794591872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-3841715400969987952008-05-04T11:13:00.000-07:002008-05-04T11:13:00.000-07:00I want to thank many of you for your words of supp...I want to thank many of you for your words of support. Krista and I do sincerely want to address what happened and take actionable steps. That feels important to us. I will be posting once we have it all in place, but we have two things in the works.<BR/><BR/>1) we are working to hire a consultant who will serve as a sounding board and with whom we can strategize constructive ways to implement changes in our acquisitions process.<BR/><BR/>2) we are in conversations with Stirfry Seminars, and we are waiting to hear what our options are for a staff training.<BR/><BR/>And godschocolate, regarding your question:<BR/><BR/><I>In light of recent events involving members of your business and Blackamazon combined with the publication of images in Amanda Marcotte´s book, why should I or anyone not think that your (as a business) behavior reflects deeper issues concerning racism and racialist thinking beyond mere "white privilege?"</I><BR/><BR/>I don't have a good answer to this question, because it requires faith in our apology and believing that we mean what we say. We've stated that we looked past the images. That was inexcusable. My engagement with BlackAmazon was wrong, but it was a flame war. What's problematic is that the two incidents have been conflated, and yet they are very very different. And that's why I haven't responded to Profbw's post, because she chose to use my words, exchanged during the BlackAmazon back-and-forth, to draw conclusions about our processes with regards to the It's a Jungle Out There images. We have acknowledged that printing the images resulted from our blindness to them, which we in turn acknowldge stems from white privilege. And now we are acting. I ask our critics to give us some space to implement the things we've promised to do. <BR/><BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>---BrookeSeal Presshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12626606901384339068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-63985200328981970012008-05-03T10:36:00.000-07:002008-05-03T10:36:00.000-07:00Annette's thoughtful comment prompted me to write ...Annette's thoughtful comment prompted me to write again. Yes, I agree:<BR/><BR/>> there is nothing Krista and Brooke can say at this point because every single word will be dissected and twisted and used against them.<BR/><BR/>>...Their detractors need to lighten up and stop trying to make everything about race and privilege (when it oh-so-obviously isn’t). <BR/><BR/>Again, I know the wonderful women at Seal Press and especially Brooke (she was my editor for Better Than I Ever Expected: Straight Talk about Sex After Sixty). Although I was jumped on before for saying this, I'll repeat that they are not racists and are not the enemy. <BR/><BR/>Rachel Swirsky's response to me -- "Of course they have [racist thoughts]. They're white, neh? They live in America, don't they?"<BR/><BR/>This thinking saddens and angers me. Because I'm a white American, I MUST be racist? What kind of racial stereotyping is that? <BR/><BR/>Seal Press has done so much to advance women's issues and support women (all colors, all backgrounds, all ages, all lifestyles) that I feel defeated by reading the continuing stream of vitriolic comments. <BR/><BR/>Joan Price<BR/>author of Better Than I Ever Expected: Straight Talk about Sex After Sixty (http://www.joanprice.com/BetterThanExpected.htm)Joan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423337694076541862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-56114337129202246112008-05-03T09:06:00.000-07:002008-05-03T09:06:00.000-07:00You’re right, Ally, there is nothing Krista and Br...You’re right, Ally, there is nothing Krista and Brooke can say at this point because every single word will be dissected and twisted and used against them.<BR/><BR/>The staff at Seal Press doesn’t need cultural diversity training. Their detractors need to lighten up and stop trying to make everything about race and privilege (when it oh-so-obviously isn’t). <BR/><BR/>And in all of this mess, has anyone stopped to think about the poor author whose book is caught in the middle? Personally, I don’t think the images in the book should be changed. It’s ridiculous. I don’t see MAD magazine or The Onion apologizing for their style of humor. The illustrations for “It’s a Jungle Out There” are campy and intended as satire. I suppose the cover could have a woman with a mullet, wearing a flannel shirt, and brandishing a tube of spackling paste. But, of course, the title would have to be changed to something suitable for that image... <BR/><BR/>Seriously though, if the common cause here is feminism, then STOP the in-fighting, work together, and focus on what is really important--improving the WORLD for all women. This argument about “privilege” is pathetic and embarrassing when you look at the bigger picture. Ally made a huge point; there are women in third world countries literally DYING from persecution, oppression, and abuse, and they would give anything to live like American women.<BR/><BR/>Christ, ladies, get it together and move on to more important fights.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-56147070159765355472008-05-02T18:29:00.000-07:002008-05-02T18:29:00.000-07:00I'm so tired of this seal press shit. Ya know what...I'm so tired of this seal press shit. Ya know what, fuck it seal press. You're not the public whipping boy and you'll never crawl out, so stop trying to please everyone.<BR/><BR/>It amuses me, as I have a home and life dear to me in a "third world" country, that they can look past their OWN place of U.S. privelage to speak of YOURS.<BR/><BR/>The very fact that they're pointing fingers in a virtual world-- hell that they have TIME and RESOURCES to point fingers- amuses the shit out of me. <BR/><BR/>Open your ears, Seal Press, people of all colors laugh behind their hands at this radical femi movement that focuses on all the wrong things at the wrong times. <BR/><BR/>Stop scrambling and move on.Ally (Allena Tapia)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03467896129753542802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-19374363224158031332008-05-02T17:38:00.000-07:002008-05-02T17:38:00.000-07:00Phleeesae move forward and quit dog-piling people....Phleeesae move forward and quit dog-piling people. Seal Press gave a sincere and generous apology.<BR/><BR/>And for this we are grateful.kimmihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11637782327517177151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-36191094460949326042008-05-02T16:49:00.000-07:002008-05-02T16:49:00.000-07:00Krista and Brooke have been publicly flogged for w...Krista and Brooke have been publicly flogged for weeks. Now, I think everyone should just get together, tie them to wooden stakes, build a giant pyre out of Seal Press books, light it, and then dance atop the smoldering ashes. Will that be enough? Finally?<BR/><BR/>Cyber wilding. Ain't it grand?<BR/><BR/>So much for feminist unity.Annettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654832155676902636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-54699278537651390692008-05-02T12:02:00.000-07:002008-05-02T12:02:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11622551155460394188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-7036251823095136422008-04-29T08:55:00.000-07:002008-04-29T08:55:00.000-07:00James Baldwin had some useful things to say about ...James Baldwin had some useful things to say about white people and innocence in his classic essay "a Stranger in the Village" (which actually contains <I>a lot</I> of insight that is directly relevant to this debacle):<BR/><BR/><I>People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster</I>.Constintinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00573833202524090598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-27669775901050196442008-04-29T02:38:00.000-07:002008-04-29T02:38:00.000-07:00"I think they were operating genuinely and innocen..."I think they were operating genuinely and innocently"<BR/><BR/>sorry, but, lol.<BR/><BR/>"Words are meaningless if not backed by action. I hope you will act soon."<BR/><BR/>yes. and the rest of what ico said.<BR/><BR/>i hope that when you come back from your training, you'll realize why those pictures should be offensive to <I>you</I> not to "anyone".<BR/><BR/>and as much as i wish for your own enlightenment(s), i hope that the company changes not just yourselves. this is really a big incident (both the pictures and your discussions with women of colour at WAM and on their blogs), but it is pointing to an underlying trend within the company for a number of years now. (again, I really dig ProfBW's suggestions)danadocushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14705670245310272556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222338576629702622.post-26722605983813175482008-04-28T12:08:00.000-07:002008-04-28T12:08:00.000-07:00<A HREF="http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/26/apologies-are-one-thing-suicide-is-just-stupid" REL="nofollow"/>Soulhuntrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12782308526180617811noreply@blogger.com